To Pursue or Not to Pursue?

Does this sound familiar?

Boy meets girl at church.

Boy adds girl on Facebook, texts her regularly, and goes out of his way to hang out with her.

Girl starts to notice boy yet boy never asks out girl.

It has to be maddening for the girl.

Before I step in a proverbial pile, I’d like to preface with the fact that I am not a woman.

(My mother is somewhere reading this right now letting out a big sigh of relief.)

I’ll never truly understand how a woman thinks nor experience walking around with a womb inside of me or the general perception that I am inherently weaker than the other gender.

I don’t subscribe to any delusions of grandeur by believing I know what is best for all relationships, but can only share what I have noticed to be the best course of action in most situations.

With that in mind…

Ladies, no matter how much we drop the ball, do not pursue us.

Please, stop. There is a growing trend that women should take the reins of the relationship and, in my opinion, it’s completely regressive.

Women are commonly outnumbering men in church.

Their college graduation rate is significantly higher. Great strides have been made in the work place as more women are successfully holding roles as executives and business owners. Not to mention, the balancing act that occurs in a female’s life when she takes on a career and motherhood is nothing short of awe-inspiring.

While signs are everywhere that men are failing to be true men in all facets of life, women seem to be rising to the challenge more than ever.

I applaud their sheer will power and the progress achieved in the process. However, when God made you a woman, I believe he did so with incredible thoughtfulness and consideration. The soul of who you are was formed with an intricate attention to detail, and the beauty that resulted could only be expressed in terms of the greatness of femininity. That beauty and greatness is something that deserves to be fought for and pursued, treasured and won through earnest endeavor.

There is a belief becoming more common that in the name of progress and equality, a woman should initiate a relationship with a man if she wants to.

Pursue him or perhaps ask him to marry her—nothing about this scenario represents progress to me. I would go so far as to say it dilutes the tremendous worth of a woman and robs a man of an opportunity to be a man.

I believe in John 3:16 and because I do, I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman as a metaphor for Christ’s sacrificial love for a church that He loved first, and should embody that relationship and union.

As a guy much more likely to be described as meek and mild rather than ferocious or aggressive, even I have a deep desire to pursue, provide for, and protect a woman.  

When I was younger, I didn’t always have the confidence that I had the ability to do so and unfortunately, I used a lot of immature tactics in dealing with my feelings for girls.

However, transitioning from boyish behavior in my approach with women has required time to mature along with watching girls I cared for walk away because I didn’t have the confidence to make my intentions clear.

Ladies, if your desire for marriage is to find man who fervently desires to lead you through servanthood, then there is a precedence that starts from the very beginning.

If that’s not your desire for marriage, I would suggest you consider examining examples of healthy and unhealthy relationships and take notice of what roles the man and woman take in each one.

Bottom line, the beauty and mystery of a woman deserves to be pursued.

As a lady, if you’re interested, make yourself available, but even if it frustrates you to your breaking point, do not initiate.

You’re doing us no favors otherwise. If he’s not man enough to take a risk, he’s not man enough for you.

You’re beautiful and someone to be treasured and cared for. Only when he is ready to risk his pride and everything that he holds dear is he ready to hold you.

 

*Photo credit: Krikit

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About W. Brandon Howard

Since he has yet to achieve his childhood dream of becoming an astronaut veterinarian, Brandon has worked for the past 3 years as a health insurance agent. He's a fledgling foodie with a penchant for making a mess in the kitchen or on himself and a sports enthusiast with a tendency to get really excited at the mere mention of "Texas Rangers." His guilty pleasures include cherry cream Dr. Pepper's from Sonic and driving an hour to his parents' house to nap with their two shih-tzus. In 2012, Brandon asked his friend, Carrie, to coffee, except he forgot to tell her it was a date, and he wore way too much cologne. They will be married in the summer of 2013, proving God really does perform miracles. You can follow Brandon on Twitter @WBrandonHoward.

  • Theresa Todd

    Hear, hear! This sounds so much better coming from a man (meaning: when women say the say the same thing, it makes us sound bitter and overly frustrated). From you, it sounds encouraging. Brothers: encourage and be examples to one another in this and other areas. As for this topic: shout it from the rooftops!

  • http://www.facebook.com/roseanna.lowe Roseanna Lowe

    Thank you, thank you, thank you! As a Christian woman I get so tired of people telling me to pursue. I have been especially frustrated with Christian men lately. I currently attend a young adult group where the men outnumber the women and yet none of them are even taking initiative. They all seem quite apathetic. However, I will refraining from doing their job. Thank you, again.

  • Lindsay

    Well said. Thank you!

  • Martha

    I loved the line “If he’s not man enough to take a risk, he’s not man enough for you.” It rings volumes of truth.

  • Madison

    WOW! This came right on time. I’ve been praying for months about this issue, and now feel God has spoken to me through this blog. I’ve been pursuing a male friend for months now, because I thought he is too shy to step up and court me. I’m getting tired of always initiating calls, text and visits, always making the “effort” while he seem uninterested. This blog is my answer…If a man wants to be with you, he will make the effort. Thanks for the confirmation!

  • http://twitter.com/aStoryofCorrie Corrie Edwards

    I echo all the comments below, THANK YOU for this post! As i get older (and more single), the more and more I am “strongly encouraged” by others to pursue men, something I do NOT care to do! I watch more and more of my girlfriends pursue men and I can’t say it’s ever worked out successfully … or it sets the tone for the entire relationship where she will always have to initiate…everything.

    If a man can’t ask me out or doesn’t care enough to work for it, how will he act when trouble comes our way later in life? I want someone who can step up to the plate and will listen to God when He says it’s time to act.

    Thanks again for encouraging women to avoid pursuing men. It’s worth it to wait for a man that will pursue. So with all that said, I look forward to that one day!

  • http://twitter.com/leeleegirl4 Leelee Writes

    Thank you for so eloquently explaining the male perspective on this issue. Sometimes I get impatient, but I don’t want any guy to think that I am taking his roles away from him.

  • megsaklutz

    Well said – thank you!

  • http://www.facebook.com/krista.thornton.94 Krista Thornton

    A to the Men

  • http://singleroots.com/ W. Brandon Howard

    Thanks to all for the response…I really felt like this was something that should be addressed and needs to be addressed further from a man’s perspective.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=563848572 Nasma Jordan

    Wonderful….sooo wonderful…this definitely needs to be addressed….. we ladies we meant to be pursued not to be the ones doing the pursuing….love it….

  • Rebekah H Pickens

    …and my heart is singing! I *love* this post. I am not even going to delve into all the things that get ruined when we, women, try to pursue. Not in a comment anyway.

  • guest

    Wow, great job and right on point! I think this is my favorite one yet.

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

    Tiny bit of a problem. Women are not kind whether Christian or not if they are not interested in a guy. In addition, “most” Christin guys aren’t exactly the coolest guys ( I often wonder if a real apostle or prophet would be recognized by a modern woman ? John dressed weird and Paul was a Jewish jailbird)
    Nobody like rejection – nobody. Given the setting of church – it makes it uncomfortable and embarrassing if a women rejects a man (even more so when a man rejects a woman interest). She will then tell other women and his reputation is ruined by “being a gentleman” or she is embarrassed if he rejects her. Makes for a rather “uncomfortable” situation wouldn’t one say ?
    Telling men to “man up” because she is “beautiful” and “treasured” is absurd given the lax morals that at present in evangelical Christian churches. If you have “scripture” to support that statement- please show chapter & verse.
    Btw, Paul outlines courting in 1 Cor 7 pretty clearly and the expectations of Christian husband/wife in other books.This is a IMO- but American Christian women are far to “feminized” and wont submit to their husbands while demanding sacrificial love – sorry but it is a raw deal given the court and legal system. There is too much to loose.
    In addition, too many men and women are not cross carrying disciples of Jesus. Dont get me wrong – they might be “fine” people as far as church attenders go but a real deal disciple is few and far between. Dont take this as a rant – it isn’t.
    Here is a “IMO” solution to navigate the waters, maintain face in a group setting, and stay holy while following Jesus in while hoping you dont screw up and make the biggest mistake of ones life and becoming “unequally yoked”. Allow me to suggest is “group activities”, events, or even better yet – group bible studies. It is a good way to gauge someones commitment to Jesus.Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Keep Jesus first and He will keep you.Btw, as soon I see a “attractive women” described in 1 Tim 2:9 – I might check for the non-verbals and approach. Otherwise, I’ll pass.
    Shalom

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

    One last thought – Women don’t seem dont give much thought on the feelings of men.
    Men suffer massive amount of rejection in their early teens and 20′s and as a result it changes their ability to feel about women in certain ways.
    Those changes are not reversible.
    Young guys who have innocent crushes on young women which is the catalyst for maturing into deep long-term caring love,
    make men terribly vulnerable to women’s ability to use men’s feelings to
    manipulate them to accomplish their needs ( women are known for being a feral and hypergamous)
    Hence, men being somewhat rational and logical NEED to protect themselves emotionally & financially (duh moment)
    What you are complaining about is how they jaded and
    cynical and lose the ability to experience those feelings due to the feral/hypergamous experiences ( I am drawing out from my own experience here).
    Why do women wonder by mid-30s which has become the target age for marriage and divorced men are resistent to marriage of American Christian women ?
    Having been jerked around enough by women and the court system – living alone looks till a non American woman who has “better breeding” and a better Christian come along. This is the only option.

    Shalom

  • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

    @facebook-1052904079:disqus I hear the points you raise. I think the single ladies need to focus on being the best women of God we can be during our time of singleness which probably means working harder on some of those things you mentioned. I think it is GREAT to hear perspectives from men on how women can re-evaluate some of our words, actions and the way we care for men (our friends and those we hope pursue us). It is important for me to keep male friends in my life so that I can keep that mirror in front of my face. Sometimes I fail miserably but sometimes I bite my tongue and learn from my mistakes. What do you think Christian women could do better in the church as it relates to being more desirable to pursue?

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

      Dont be a luke warm churchgoer- Be a real cross carrying disciples that DAILY prays,
      read, meditate in the scriptures, take all decisions to Jesus, practice
      holiness, memorize scriptures, meet with fervent believers, and overcome
      sin as it is presented.
      Most of all ask and believe God for His desires not yours. He will change them if you ask Him. Btw, He wants peace, love, and joy but His way and not yours. If you yield to Him and obey Him – He will bless you. The scriptures show that again and again in the OT/NT.
      When things are right with Him and He is centered in your life. He will give you the desires of your heart. Just remember to be patient – remember the story of Sarah and other women mentioned in the scripture ( be patient and pray).

      • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

        those sound like some great challenges! i’m blessed to do life with some amazing women of God. we’re not perfect and we’re learning how to be more conformed to the image of Christ on a daily basis. i pray that you encounter some more mature and genuine women of God. my heart grieves when i think of the men i have not respected as i should, honored, loved and cared for as Christ has shown. please don’t give up on women yet but relish the opportunity to encourage and challenge those females the Lord puts in your path. also, prayer is a powerful tool. :)

        • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

          We are called to perfection which simply means perfect obedience and doing what you know is right. It isn’t that hard. I havent given up on women though feminized American women are unsuitable and unattractive ( my taste has changed quite a bit- a modest feminine women commands my attention). This is seen 1 1 Tim 2 which is so anti-typical American woman and media. Funny as this sounds – Mormon women do quite well with modesty, family values, and scriptural holiness / righteousness despite the Joseph Smith theology – go figure:)

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

            I think the daily Christian walk is impossible to do out of our flesh but that the Lord aids us where we need strength, help and guidance. I’ve been meditating on Ps 73:25 and I think that can be help for those who struggle with loneliness or dissatisfaction while they’re single because we’re to be focused on the things of the Lord as the scriptures challenge us. I’m from South Africa and am naturally fascinated with people from other cultures and especially women from around the world. I’ve known a few men who did the “mail order bride” (wasn’t really as sketchy as that sounds) thing and learned some interesting facets of how their Christian marriages thrived and the cultural advantages that these women brought to the table as these men were seeking help mates. I’ve also seen God powerfully honor a Christian (Formerly Hindu) Indian man’s family as he allowed them to arrange a marriage for him. I have had quite the exposure to the Mormon religion over my professional years and have been challenged by many of the women I’ve come to know who exemplified some of those characteristics you mentioned above. I’m humbled when I see anyone who is outside of the truth live as a better reflection than me. Do you connect particularly with any one culture outside of your Jewish and I am assuming American heritage? Also if I may ask are you referring to any geographical area in the US over another where you’ve seen these trends with women in the Church to be more evident?

          • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

            BTW, “help mate” at which feminized women cringe is not a derogatory term.

            A “ezer” is a “support” or buttress against a a wall so that it stands. If one does a word study- they will find it is another name for G_d- Jehovah Ezer – The LORD our Helper. This is a great little word study and is really informative.

            If this is a name for G_d then how can it be a derogatory for a woman to be referred to as “ezer”/helper ?

            The women that I mostly connect with are non American raised women ( I have a fondness for Turkish, Egyptian, Indian, Asian women – Very feminine, intelligent, educated, rational, hard working, modest, and chaste ).

            A feminine woman is very interesting and fun to communicate with- non-verbally, spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and verbally – they don’t rely on the outward garb and it is quite easy” to see the inside garden” that is so lacking in American woman.

            A feminine women is very very attractive and rarely seen- it is not given to a busy and “loud” culture like America. Though I have met women from Texas who are seem to have desirable manners and feminine traits.

            I have been in medical sales and have traveled quite a bit with my career while living in San Diego, Scottsdale, Boise, and now WA.

            This is a IMHO – YMMV.

            Shalom

  • unger

    I don’t dispute the basic thrust, which is that men should do the actual proposing, the actual verbalization of intent, but the rest is very deeply flawed.

    First, the conclusion can be flipped – and, judging by the women in the church today, MUST be flipped and shouted from the rooftops if we’re to maintain any semblance of intellectual honesty and sound preaching: only when you’re ready to respect him for the risk he takes, and treat him fairly and compassionately as a matter of course, are you ready to be held. This ‘relationship’ thing works both ways: if you do not respect men, or tolerate those who do not, you have no right – least of all a scripturally supportable right – to complain. If there is an epidemic of men refusing to take risks, there is equally an epidemic of women behaving with extreme entitlement, and often, gratuitously nasty as well. Some other essays on this very site have noted the problem, so I know all of you know perfectly well what I mean.

    You’ll note I used the word ‘compassion’ above. You would do well to think about what this might mean for those who’ve already been hurt by others. There are a lot of good men who aren’t as perfect as you’d prefer. Odds are, you aren’t as perfect as they’d prefer, either. If you think they should be willing to settle for you – and, presumably, better off settling for you – then perhaps what’s good for the gander is good for the goose too?

    Second, I’d like to interject a little bit of relevant scripture into this, since the OP was totally lacking in it. I’m sure that its reliance on pop-psychology instead of the Word of God was just an oversight, but it’s one that should be corrected nonetheless. Let’s turn to the book of Ruth. If you’ll recall, the eponymous woman – this ancestor of Our Lord, no less – did not passively wait for someone to pick her up. She did not hang around Boaz acting like ‘one of the boys’ in hopes that he’d somehow notice, in spite of her actions, that she was missing a few parts and had a few extra others. Quite the contrary. In chapter 3, old Naomi, who had come to know a few things about how men think, gave Ruth explicit instructions on what to do to catch the attention of someone who hitherto was ‘just friends’. Mysteriously absent from the advice were tidbits like ‘even if it frustrates you to your breaking point, do not initiate’. Even more mysterious: Ruth didn’t baww about how this was overturning the natural order of things; she didn’t tell Naomi to get stuffed for being a regressive old bat who didn’t trust God to provide; she didn’t sermonize, or find a white knight to sermonize for her, on how she should Wait On God for a signed and notarized proposal until her ovaries shriveled to raisins of despair. No, she put on the 12th century BC’s equivalent of high heels, turned on the charm, and did some pretty impossible-to-miss things to put the ball in Boaz’s court. She apparently didn’t think this was depriving him of the opportunity to be a man; she thought, rather, that it was giving him the opportunity to be one.

    And this is, in fact, normal human behavior. Women, not men, are the ones who really initiate courtship, by signalling openness and interest, and men who are not simply playing a numbers game act accordingly. You didn’t provide a word of Scripture against it because it simply isn’t in there. You appealed to the example of Christ – but even He refuses to lead people who make not the slightest effort to show that they want to be led.

    I’ll conclude with an appeal to personal experience, both firsthand and observed, that lines up rather neatly with the above. I simply see no reason to believe there really exist men as described in many of the comments, who are ‘ordinary decent men’, straight, unattached, not keeping harems, not under vows, not asexual, and not autistic, who will refuse to escalate, who will remain ‘just friends’, with women who are signalling their openness. It doesn’t happen. Men who behave that way are men with other actively-pursued options – in which case, unless you can come up with something in the Bible that says men have to chase you instead of those other hussies (hmph!), the criticism simply doesn’t apply. If he’s not one of those men, I’d put a C-note on him thinking, with good reason, that you aren’t interested in him.

    Don’t be dead weight. Be Ruth.

    • unger

      It stripped a link:
      http://evolution.anthro.univie.ac.at/institutes/urbanethology/resources/articles/articles/publications/grammerfink.pdf

      If that doesn’t display, google ‘women initiate nonverbal courtship 90%’, and click on the first scholarly article link, ‘Nonverbal Behavior as Courtship Signals’, by Grammer. It’s Science.

      • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

        curious … do you have any denominational affiliation?

        • unger

          Stephanie – thanks :>

          I do apologize for coming across more confrontational than I really intend to be; it is, however, very difficult to avoid doing so anytime one is giving ‘the other side’. Lock a Calvinist and Arminian in a room together and…well, you know. Bring bandages. Anytime masculum et feminam creavit eos is in play, that principle goes to 11.

          To answer your question: I’ve been a member of an ‘independent non-denominational Bible church’ since childhood.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

            @unger (is that a nickname or your given name if i may ask?) You do not need to apologize to me for that because I’ve not taken your commentary as such. I might be in the minority. I also have to point out that intellectually I’m not an equal of yours but I do appreciate you providing additional resources for study to continue my growth on this subject. I don’t find Ruth’s actions passive by any means and appreciate the strength and confidence she displayed. I’ve found a peace in understanding my femininity and not defining it as weak or passive. My challenge as a woman is to not only look at the issues I see with men in the world but to also see the issues that lie with me and and to allow the Holy Spirit to help me become more transformed to the image of Christ. I appreciate you speaking for the other side and sharing some insight and adding some scripture into the discussions we’re having.

          • unger

            ‘Unger’ is just a nickname – a joke some friends made a long time ago, that wound up sticking. And I very much appreciate your kindness – uncommon kindness, when these things are discussed (especially online).

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

            well, it’s hard to “google” unger but i respect your anonymity. :) it is my pleasure. do you usually find Christian people hostile online when their ideas or blogs are challenged? do you regularly respond to blogs online? i don’t do much on SR nor do i read many blogs but i try to read my friend’s blogs when i am able. i am fascinated with masculum et feminam creavit eos and even as it transcends sexuality but speaks to the imago Dei reflected in His Creation. i’ll take a look at some of those articles and blogs you suggested on this thread and the other one i read recently. if you have any more suggestions send them my way. if they require a membership to mensa or Greek and Hebrew i’ll have to have my dad translate.

          • unger

            Hah, I find that pretty much everyone, Christian or no, and myself certainly not excluded (as you can see), gets their hackles up when their ideas are challenged, whether they’re right or wrong. That’s just how people work: nobody believes or can argue anything totally dispassionately. You’ve doubtless heard the old warnings about discussing politics and religion in polite company: anytime those are in dispute, which is to say anytime anything dealing with fundamental worldviews is in dispute, people fight much harder. And then, if a matter has to do with differences, real or hypothesized, between men and women, the whole thing is apt to go Henry Higgins/Eliza Doolittle: men and women have been talking past each other since Eden, sometimes for honest differences in the way men and women are ‘wired’ to think, sometimes by stubborn uncharity pretending to be honest difference; alas, even the best men and women are unlikely to see perfectly clearly together this side of the Last Day. This debate, of course, drags in all three topics.

            So, yes, it’s the same everywhere else. In the other thread, I posted several links to other sites. The blog authors tend to be even-handed and generally correct (I think); the comment threads on some (not all) of the sites often turn heated, though – there, more in favor of the opposite extreme. If you go lurking, you’ll see much to dislike, and much any Christian should dislike: some men who really are deeply hurt and angry, and worse, other men who would like to have some justification of their desires and fantasies that they can convince themselves is ‘Christian’. But there are also many others who ask, ‘But what does God say?’ In reply, some cheer, some think, some dismiss, some jeer – there as everywhere. No peace, but a sword.

            At the very least, you’ll see some very well-argued reasons why ‘men just aren’t manning up like they should’, even though it is, no doubt, partly true, is dreadfully far from the whole story, and thus, how the Church, especially the evangelical Church, is failing men and, in the long run, women too by tickling ears instead of telling the whole biblical truth.

            If there’s anything else I think Christian women (and men) should read on the matter, it’s C.S. Lewis’ ‘That Hideous Strength’. Though a novel, and not one chiefly interested in boys and girls, I think it paints a better picture – and on occasion, explicitly explains – what does and doesn’t constitute real masculinity and feminity, just leadership and submission, and what men and women owe and don’t owe each other. Like everything else by CSL, if you haven’t read it, do.

            …as for myself, no, I don’t write much online. In school, I was that kid who sat in the back and never raised his hand unless nobody else knew the answer to a question or he had a challenge for the teacher. Haven’t changed much. Now and then I see something that fires me up, such that I cannot help but say something; most of the time, however, I simply read. But wherever I comment occasionally, I read virtually everything.

    • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

      @e72f36f436ad8f138a5eb7c6da84b356:disqus only when you’re ready to respect him for the risk he takes, and
      treat him fairly and compassionately as a matter of course, are you
      ready to be held – great line
      (i have more thoughts but trying to digest what you’ve said and finish up here at work. i appreciated some of your comments on a previous blog post here in SR. i think us ladies in the church have a lot we can be taught and shown from a biblical and from a male perspective. i appreciate you giving feedback and welcome your challenges and further insights)

    • http://singleroots.com/ W. Brandon Howard

      Here’s where we agree:
      1) You can’t lead someone who doesn’t want to be led.
      2) A woman needs to show openness. (I referred to that in the post. I apologize if it wasn’t clear that by saying “do not initiate” I’m referring to a woman asking out a man.)

      Beyond that, I just have to politely ask you to stop wasting your time and mine until you get your heart right. Jesus is love and as eloquent and articulate as both you and Michael are, you’re both angry. You’re angry at women because you’ve been hurt. You’re making huge blanket statements about an entire gender based on your limited personal experiences that have soured you. Nothing about what you have added to this conversation is loving, is motivated out of love, or is submitted with a purpose of having an open, respectful dialogue. I’m not saying everything you’ve brought up is moot, but you continue to do it in such a way that is not educational or beneficial for anyone.
      Your purpose is to not to dialogue but to campaign and in doing so you draw ignorant conclusions about an entire gender. Campaign all you want elsewhere…not on my post.

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Joshua-Phillip-Johnson/25003385 Joshua Phillip Johnson

        The things they’re writing are things that more and more Christian men believe. Ignoring something won’t make it go away.

      • unger

        I hope you’ll also agree that what Ruth did was definitely not passive; that what she did actually would count as ‘asking out’ under some common definitions of the term; that it is distinguishable and should be distinguished from a proposal of intent; that its active nature did not diminish Ruth’s femininity or Boaz’s masculinity, or either’s natural prerogatives or duties; that it was divinely approved and relationally healthy and not in any sense disordered or inversive of the proper gender roles; that the use of such charm and clear unequivocal invitation are morally and traditionally sound; and that admonitions to abjure such behaviors in the name of spirituality are unbiblical, untraditional, unscientific, and therefore spiritually and materially counterproductive – spiritual-sounding puffery at best, and a likely prescription for pain and loneliness.

        Phew.

        I do have to ask, because again, the OP was heavy on opinion and light on scriptural backing for said opinion. It is indeed critically important to uphold the necessity of male leadership, but what does the Bible actually say about leading? Lots of people have lots of different ideas about what constitutes leading or following; what does the Bible call leading or following?

        As for me: what ‘blanket statements about an entire gender’ are you referring to? If I’ve made any such statement, I’ll explicitly and categorically apologize if it’s pointed out to me – with the exceptions of anything also said by a front-paged author on this site (for instance, you), or anything said with direct scriptural and/or academic peer-reviewed scientific backing. I don’t think those are unreasonable caveats. Please provide examples, for which I will promptly apologize for my carelessness and offensiveness, item by item, as I ought, or retract the assertion, as you ought.

        I’m sorry you think what I wrote was unloving and not conducive to open dialogue – but I don’t find it very loving or conducive to open dialogue for you to make accusations about others’ motives and integrity without good warrant.

      • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

        “Jesus is love”… Interesting comment that is thrown around quite a bit. Permit me to say the love of Christ is a sacrificial / behavioral act and demonstrated in actions as well as obedience.

        Here are a “couple” if you permit from the scriptures:

        “if, you love me – obey my teachings”.

        “I rebuke and discipline those whom I love. Be zealous therefore and return.”

        ” Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.Love never fails. ”

        Now this is behavioral, conditional, and tough love that is obedient to the point of death and and not a warm, gooey “feeling”- it is a gift as well as it must be learned.

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

      Very good point. Coincides with the story of David and Abigail. Very smart woman who saved her household, married public enemy #1 who had was on the run and became a queen. Not to bad imo…

  • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

    @w. Brandon. Lets keep the matter very simple and scriptural. There are very few Christian disciples -they are abstinent in their personal lives ( btw, this takes a real relationship with Jesus). If a man is abstinent in courtship then he wants a moral wife and children. I have met and courted quite a few attractive, educated, spirit filled, “Christians” who wanted a real Christian man but then when they found one – they complained.
    Why ?
    Being a Christian disciple means “we” dont have “premartial sex” or “mess around” or “girls night in Vegas” or “drinking & dancing” at events. It means we pray, read, and lead sober lives which means take everything to Jesus. I have been accused more than once for “being a real Christian” and discussing more than once with pastors (and theologians) on scriptures simple as Gal 5:19-20. I dont wish to bragging but a gift from God to expound the scriptures and understand Pauls writings in a Hebrew context has left many pastors / theologians I have met a bit tongue and embarrassed ( btw, I have the highest regards for Dietrich Bonhoeffer – he is one of few evangelical “theologians” that get it right).

    There are so called “Christians” who are not abstinent and are worldly in their behavior -they are neither a Christian nor a disciple nor will they enter the Kingdom of God.

    The evangelical churches are “full” of pew warmers who are delusional in regards to Christian discipleship – they are unknowingly “tares” or “lukewarm”. They aren’t fully to blame, most pastors don’t teach the scriptures and the rigors of discipleship. Live/ teach a incorrect / “weak” or popular message and the outcome of the behavior of the congregation is predictable- luke warm or backsliding. To expect anything else would violate common sense as well as the universal laws of reaping and sowing. Every NT book warns against false teachers and deception – every(the church is in a horrendous state of moral apostasy from bad teaching but that is just my opinion).

    Allow me to suggest truth, serious introspection, prayer, and a close walk with Jesus is needed – not “entitlement” in a already feminized evangelical environment.

    Whether you agree or not – nothing happens without the man as the leader whether it spiritual, physical, mental, financial protection- nothing. This is how it is set up in the Torah and the NT.
    By nature when child is born into a relationship the child is dependent on the parents and the wife is now dependent on the husband. Otherwise she and the child will be in great difficulty. If not, she will have to get her support from others. This can not be denied.
    There can be only one driver in a car and a chaste feminine woman who gets this is a great gift. Just as reminder- here is the scriptural order – G_D, Jesus, government, man, woman, child. If a woman doesn’t subscribe to this – then I am simply not interested.

    This is not taught in the churches and in fact quite the opposite. There is a reason why the Jesus taught the disciples to pray ” lead me not into temptation” and Paul wrote the commandments to the churches as directed by the Holy Spirit.

    Btw, everyone has been “hurt”. Both men and women. However, I am not stupid to repeat the same mistake twice – it hurts and costs to much.

    Be as shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves.

    Shalom.

  • http://twitter.com/JennyLou314 Jen Johnson

    I wasn’t going to comment, but from a woman’s point of view…Michael and Unger – please stop posting about this. I agree with Brandon that you sound angry and hurt. I’m sorry if you’ve been hurt in the past, but please go to God with that pain. He is Jehovah-Rafah – our Healer.

    @facebook-1052904079:disqus – Let’s be honest – this all begins in adolescence. You are holding offenses from when you were in middle and high school against women you’ve never met. Your very words were hurtful, cruel and discouraging to women. And they’re just plain wrong.

    I’m not going to debate each of your claims.
    I’m sorry if you have not had the chance to meet sister’s in Christ who can encourage you in your own relationship with Jesus. But trust me – we are out there.

    @e72f36f436ad8f138a5eb7c6da84b356:disqus – we all have to come to terms with the understanding of submission. But I’ll be honest, there are some Christian men, that by their very actions and words, their leadership is not that of Christ. I don’t know that I could submit to someone like that. And then – there are some precious, godly men, who have treated me with respect, compassion and encouragement that I would follow to the ends of the earth.

    I won’t even touch the statements you made about men. Obviously you have not met many righteous, patient men.

    Only when both men and women completely surrender to the One who has mercifully saved us, can we move forward in healthy relationships with each other.

    @Brandon_Howard:disqus – this was a great post and a great reminder for all of us. Since feminism took off, men have been emasculated and women have picked up the slack in lots of areas, but specifically, relationships. Hopefully we can encourage each other and the next generation to have a better balance of equality and submission where it’s designed to occur.

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

      Lol… High School relationships…I think I might be a little past that and have a 19 year relationship (ex wife), survivor of a California divorce and the legal system, and 2 engagements to “Christian” women of which turned out to be” Sunday only Christians” despite my rigourous screening process ( God is always faithful). Btw, my ex-wife was my first and the courting with the Christian women were centered on on following Jesus and abstinence. I almost gave up the idea of marriage till I dated a great woman from a great family and I saw 3 long term marriages where mutual respect and biblical principles were in placed.

      Were the husbands perfect ? No.
      Were the wives perfect ? No.
      The man did sacrifical love ? Yes.
      Did the woman obey ? Yes.
      Was there a massive learning curve ? You betcha !
      Btw, these were fantastic disciples of Jesus and went through some very hard times but they stuck it out and God blessed them ( does this sound like the scriptures ?)

      My experience to date is women say they want a Christian man but arent not used to someone who is stronger spiritually.
      G_d has stepped in many times and told me things about them – that very few or nobody knew and it freaked them out. Not to mention thy dont know how to conduct themself in relationship where sex cant be used as a tool (the real person / character/behavior behavior comes up as does mine). This is not romantic but it allows for a real relationship and friendship happen ( this is seen in the Song of Songs)

      You mentioned my words were hurtful… How so ?

      If they weren’t true that is one thing.
      But if the only reply you have is a ad- hominem then you might want to be a bit introspective and ask yourself why.
      Btw, ad- hominem replies show lack of intellectual and spiritual honesty. Address the statement and dont attack the person.
      Ad- hominem’s attacks is “exactly” the same response to the prophets, Christ, and the disciples.

      Shalom.

  • http://singleroots.com/ W. Brandon Howard

    @twitter-73453278:disqus Thank you. Well spoken.

    @facebook-1052904079:disqus Your first two comments begin this way: “Women are not kind whether Christian or not if they are not interested in a guy.” and “Women don’t seem don’t give much thought on the feelings of men.”

    That’s ridiculous. When you begin a comment this way, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see your intent or your heart. Stop worrying about other people. We’ve all been burned before. Start focusing on what Christ has done for you and get healing. This goes for unger too.

    @e72f36f436ad8f138a5eb7c6da84b356:disqus The last time you commented on a post, suddenly other guys started showing up and trolling the comments. Your intent is to write long, flowing sentences full of commas and semicolons comprising novella-sized comments so as to prove some point of intellectual superiority around your case, completely derailing the original intent of the post. Your intent is impure. I’m sorry to hear both you and Michael are surrounded by dark-hearted people. I suggest moving to Texas.

    Jesus didn’t write this post. I did. I have no plans of adding it to the Bible. It’s an opinion based on my experiences and observations that I believe is rooted in Biblical truth as God has specifically gifted and called each gender for certain roles in a relationship. It was meant as an encouragement and I’m pleased to see by the response that I accomplished my intent. There will be no response out of me to the two of you going forward on any subject because frankly I’ve probably wasted too much of my valuable time as it is on the matter.

    Matthew 7:6

  • Martha

    Make ourselves available…… without stalking, just how do I do that!? LOL

    • http://www.facebook.com/michael.singer.549 Michael Singer

      Do you seriously want a “honest” answer or a “nice” answer ?

    • unger

      Hah! A lot of men wonder pretty much the same thing!

      Doesn’t that mean that some of their fears aren’t that much different from yours? And if so, doesn’t that suggest that some attempt at mutual understanding is in order? Just a thought.
      Yes, actually doing what Ruth did – breaking into someone’s house as he’s snoozing, taking a blanket off his feet so they get cold, and waiting for him to wake up and see you standing there over him – is generally inadvisable. When Ruth said ‘spread your garment over me’, she probably didn’t have in mind a straitjacket. They obviously did things a little differently back then.
      Still, one needn’t go to the other extreme, the demonstrably unbiblical** answer of the OP. How might Ruth look in 21st century America?
      First, let’s get something major out of the way. Ruth did not chase after men whom she barely knew. There were obviously plenty of men in town with obvious attractive traits, and Boaz noted that she could have run after any of them, hoping that what was inside matched their shiny exteriors. She didn’t: she instead set her eye on someone she had come to know personally, someone whose good character she had seen up close for herself over an unspecified, but apparently non-trivial period of time.
      The 21st century application should be clear: smelling Harley McBadboy’s Axe body spray and then rationalizing up some good qualities – ooh, he plays lead guitar in a praise band! he must be soooo spiritual! – is putting the cart way before the horse. And if you know someone and know him to be a good man, I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest that you have good reason to believe that even if he just isn’t attracted to you, if you behave with the slightest semblance of decent human decorum, he’s not going to scream EWWWWWWWWWWW! or have you arrested for stalking or tell the whole church you’re crazy. And I of course drop the thought that if you really do know someone, you will probably have some idea of ‘his type’. This may save everyone a lot of trouble – The Moar You Know and all.
      Obviously, this is much less tingle-inducing than being swept off one’s feet by a tall, dark, handsome, and apparently rich stranger, and trying to get to know him through a fog of hormones. (And, of course, since we’re Christians, avoiding ‘knowing’ him in the Biblical sense before one’s wedding – which, judging by the failure rate, even among the purity-minded, is a very tall order.) But where in all the Bible is there the slightest praise of that sort of erotomania, or the slightest suggestion that it’s spiritually or materially healthy? A fortiori, where in all the Bible are Christian men commanded to fulfill your desires for it? And your great grandparents (give or take a generation) and nearly everyone before them didn’t meet in such a manner; why would you think you should?
      Let us move on. Suppose you do know someone; suppose you do have a Boaz in mind. Instead of sitting there ‘waiting on Jesus’, under the delusion, disturbingly common among evangelicals today, that sitting on your thumb is an excellent practice of Christian femininity, and just the thing to bring all the boys a-knocking, why not try doing things to show him that he isn’t invisible to you, that he isn’t just one more random schlub in your eyes, that you think he’s somewhat special? Find some small way to brighten his world. If nothing else, haven’t you heard the ancient proverb, common to just about every culture under the sun, that the way to a man’s heart is through his stomach? Your great grandmother, I can assure you, did know it, no matter where she came from! The Pillsbury corporation sells a wide variety of inexpensive, quick, and difficult-to-screw-up solutions for the lovelorn. (I can bake better cookies than you can, but that doesn’t mean I won’t heartily appreciate even the most amateurish effort to feed me delicious things.) And otherwise, act like you notice him. Hold a gaze longer than you otherwise would. Smile. Bat eyelashes. Toss hair. Be helpful. Generally act especially pleased to see him and be with him – which, if you really do like him, won’t be just an act. There are plenty of wily tricks that don’t involve breaking and entering, things that everyone Before Feminism considered perfectly feminine, and, applied towards proper ends (i.e. not somebody else’s husband), perfectly appropriate for Christians, to get men to think ‘Hmm. She seems like a sweet girl…’ Go and do likewise.
      But what do I know? I’ve obviously been deeply hurt and now just hate women and spew the contents of my black heart all over SR in order to flaunt my intellectual superiority and teach people how to use and abuse semicolons. Just ask WBH and Jen.
      ** Sorry, WBH: I’ll see your Matthew 7:6 and raise you Acts 17:11 and Colossians 2:8.

      • unger

        …dude, where’s my linebreaks? Pasting somehow ate them. Sorrry…

        Well, it should still be pretty obvious where new paragraphs were supposed to begin.

      • Stephanie Lederle

        @unger … Oh my, I had a good chuckle. If you ever end up in DFW I hope you’ll have coffee with me and Brandon. I might have to talk him into it but I think that sounds like a really good time.

        • unger

          This ‘D’ of which you speak: is that the smog-shrouded land in the east from which issue the traffic jams? Wherein a great iron giraffe stands vigil over legions of idling cars? :>

          You asked for stuff to read: here’s one to add to the list. The blog is a year’s worth of commentary on a lot of the topics that’ve come up in these two threads, written by a single Catholic woman. And this is another (significantly older) single woman’s perspective on the market and ‘manosphere’ today – I believe she’s some sort of evangelical, but I wot not exactly what.

          • http://www.facebook.com/stephanielederle Stephanie Lederle

            @e72f36f436ad8f138a5eb7c6da84b356:disqus the one and only. i’m from africa so i appreciate the giraffe reference. since you identified Dallas as being in the east i’m going to guess you reside in a quieter west TX town like odessa or midland. my next assumption is that you would indeed like to have coffee with me and Brandon. i’ll be awaiting your répondez s’il vous plaît.

            your links for the blogs you suggested didn’t post. please do send those again.

  • http://www.simplynaturalideas.com/ Rochelle Hanson

    THANK YOU for saying this!!! I love it :) And I ABSOLUTELY agree.

  • kae

    i am a women..christian at that. I detest the notion of being pursued because it implies a passive role. although i am submissive in nature i am an active sexually aggressive women. i do experience more respect and feminine like responses to a man when i pursue him. if a man came to me and treated me normally i would respond normally but i learned that the feminine nature imples a bit of a waiting and needing quality something only a non pursuer can trigger.. at least im me. I like hard to get men… i like resistance and i like being in want for my man. i am a pursuer and cannot have it any other way. plus most animals women choose their mate …humans are rediculous. because ur my baby i want your baby.. my logic. ps he`s a strong confident god fearing man but love is love

  • Giggles

    i’d recommend ‘wild at heart’ by John Eldredge,he talks about men not wanting to pursue because of a certain brokeness,a certain passivity that not only manifests in relationships,but it shows in other areas of life as well. His style may not speak to everyone,and he has received a lot of fire for it.Him and his wife have also written ‘captivating’ which speaks to the heart of women.Some women pursue due to a mistrust of men,’if i take control of this situation he has no power to hurt me’.Men and women both need healing in this area,as Jesus to heal you in this area,even if you do not THINK you do.See what he does… Great Post!

  • http://twitter.com/Marie_0708 J

    this is seriously so hard for me to do. As a single Christian woman, I struggle with waiting for a guy to work up the courage to initiate a relationship! I’ve been friends with one guy for a few months now, and although he has mentioned to me that he’d be interested in “seeing if things could develop into a relationship” he has yet to ask me out! I mean, come on, why can’t he just be more upfront about it?? It could be that he doesn’t know I’m interested, and I’ve thought about talking to him about revisiting the relationship issue, but does that mean I’m pursuing him? or just making myself available?

  • http://www.facebook.com/dana.daughety Dana Frusha Daughety

    “Ladies, if your desire for marriage is to find man who fervently desires to lead you through servanthood, then there is a precedence that starts from the very beginning.” THIS! :)

  • youraveragewoman

    Exactly what I needed to read :) THANK YOU! Brilliant!

  • Michelle

    I agree with you. Man was designed to pursue. To remove that from the equation is to create an imbalance which will manifest itself in the relationship sooner or later. Yes, a woman may ask a man out but she will forever be “forcing” the man to initiate throughout the course of the relationship. If you initiate the relationship (as a woman), you will never know if a man was ever truly interested in you or not. He may respond to your advances out of flattery, boredom or convenience but as a woman you are defeating any chance of knowing if that man is really into you. There are many women who have never had another woman lovingly guide them into embracing the mystery and beauty of womanhood. There are many women who never had a father at home to tell them how lovely and special they are. There are many women that have been taught by other women that if they want something,they have to go after it. Romance is not a degree or a job, you cannot go after it in the same way. If you are a woman and a man does not notice you,let him go. Don’t flirt with him,don’t make excuses to bump into him, if a guy wants to get your attention believe me,men are very creative and they WILL pursue the woman they want. To the ladies out there; you are beautiful in your own wonderful way. Allow a man to pursue you,don’t be impatient and take things into your own hands. When that man pursues you, you won’t have to convince him to notice you, you’ll be too busy having a healthy and balanced relationship because he pursued you first.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jenniferht3 Jennifer Hatfield Taylor

    A friend gave me the link to this article because she thought it sounded like things I have been saying. Thank you for expressing it so well. I do not know God’s plan for me, I hope it includes a strong, Godly man in the romantic part of my life. But, these kind of men are sadly rare, at least from where I am standing. I am glad to have found someone who also sees things the way I always have.
    waiting to be pursued by the right man of God.

  • susan

    I totally agree with this blog. It has helped me a lot! I met a guy and we have chatted a few times. Would it be harmful to email him and just say it was nice chatting with you?

    • http://singleroots.com/ W. Brandon Howard

      Susan – thanks for reading! I still stand by everything I wrote in this post, however, I think if I had to do it over again I probably wouldn’t have made it come off as militant as it might have to some people. Beyond the fact that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the light…there’s not much I really feel like we should be militant (i.e. religious) about. No matter what we’re talking about, the most important thing is about the hearts of the people.

      I don’t think there is anything wrong with providing a little bait, if you will, just to encourage the guy to take a step. Some guys are nervous or even fearful…I’ve been in that camp before. Being rejected is tough!

      One of my favorite speakers/pastors is Perry Noble. He’s said many times, “Ladies, it’s not your job to pursue the man. However, there’s nothing wrong with mentioning to him one time, ‘If you were to ask me out, I wouldn’t say no…’ and walking off!”

      A bit of that is tongue-in-cheek but I think what he’s saying is some guys need a little hint that they won’t be rejected and as long as you don’t place yourself in the driver’s seat of pursuing him, there’s nothing wrong with letting him know you enjoy his company.